In a world where lies are peddled against gender inclusivity, gender violence, and women’s rights, the ladies of “The Counter-Narrative Podcast” have a lot to say about it. Intending to dismantle gender biases and promote inclusivity by challenging prevailing narratives, they created a podcast with a highly intellectual guest list that provides information completely based on thorough research and facts.

We discussed with the hosts, Rihanot and Tiara, as they delved deep into the reason behind the creation of the podcast, their inspirations, target audience, and long-term goals.

Biola: it’s great to be speaking with you both, after listening to the podcast, I’m just gonna say this, I am a huge fan of your podcast. Also, when from the moment we started talking today, I noticed the synergy between the both of you, like you’ve known each other for the longest time. How did you guys meet?

Tiara: Yes, so basically you know this thing where they ask a couple where they met and they say “We met on Twitter”? Well, that’s our story. Basically, what we do with our Twitter accounts is quite similar. We talk about gender equality, inclusivity, and women, so it just made sense that we found each other and it was so easy because we both had similar interests. We became friends, and from there we started the podcast.

Rihanot: Yeah, she’s right. We met on Twitter because we kind of gravitated towards each other since we did the same thing and from there it was, you know, “Sister Love”. Sometimes, it might seem like we are fighting with people, but all we’re just trying to say is that people can’t just come and peddle lies against women. So after some thought, we decided to do educational Twitter threads backed up by research. We did that for three months, covering topics like women empowerment, male infertility, cooking as a feminist issue and so on. We became even closer and after a while, we thought of doing it at a higher level, hence the podcast, and that’s where we are today.

Biola: That makes so much sense now that you explain it. Rihanot, you mentioned that you’re not fighting with people online. Are you sure that’s the case?

Tiara: Well for me, it’s literally a fight for our lives. We are fighting for equal rights. We want to be seen, we want the same opportunities, and the same rights. You know sometimes, people think we are too aggressive, too disagreeable. But I believe that you have to fight to see any change in the world. If you look through history, you’ll see that changes were only ever effected with fights.

Rihanot: T is right. The reason I said we were not fighting is because I’m trying to get my point across. I’m just trying to say that Intimate Partner Violence is on the rise, and femicide is on the rise. I’m just trying to get you to listen to me. I didn’t want to use the word “fighting” because when you appear like you’re fighting, people would not want to listen to you. But Tiara is also right. So technically, we are fighting to be heard and seen. We want women to be seen as human enough and it seems that we are going to be fighting our way through.

Biola: I hear that. So do you think that enough in that regard is being done in the world today?

Tiara: You know before COVID-19, in 2019, the UN said it was going to take about 102 years for us to reach gender parity. After COVID-19 in 2021, they conducted another survey and discovered that we have actually regressed and it would currently take us 300 years to reach gender parity, that is to even be on the same level at all. The global femicide rate is increasing daily. In the US where women had abortion rights, it was overturned. So it might look like the world is doing a lot but if you take a closer look, you’ll see that we are regressing. We still need to do so much more for us to get there.

Rihanot: Exactly. Speaking of abortion, we still have to deal with child marriage. There are so many vices that need to be abolished. This is 2023 and some women cannot still go to school in some places. Grown men are saying that they don’t want their wives to go to school and even if they go to school they don’t allow them to work. If we are not given the same rights, and the same opportunities, then we would keep having this conversation. So we’re basically fighting for our lives. Look at birth control, for example. Some women can’t even choose to be in control of their sexual and reproductive health because of their husbands. So yes, we are fighting to be heard and seen as people enough.

Tiara: To add to what Rihanot said about women not being allowed to go to school, there won’t be enough women doctors, which will lead to a high mortality rate for women and girls in these places.

Rihanot: Exactly. So there is no safe space whatsoever for the girl child. Imagine a teenage girl is pregnant and she goes to the hospital, there is a chance of her experiencing medical gaslighting and medical misogyny from a male doctor or Taliban doctor (In the case of Afghanistan). So we need women to go to school to grow up to be doctors, pharmacists, and medical practictioners in general.

Biola: I agree with you. Men are great doctors, but I don’t feel like they are great enough to understand exactly what women go through in pregnancy and delivery. Experience is still the best teacher.

Rihanot: Yes. Let me give an example. There was this video that went viral, about people plugging a machine that enables a man to feel menstrual pain and their reactions. Every time I come across those videos it irks me because the pain is not even half of it. The mood swings, loss of appetite, aching boobs, sadness, and anxiety, the pain can come from anywhere. So we need women in science who can understand these things.

Biola: What you’re trying to do is big. From my experience, it takes a lot of resources to sustain a cause like this. How do you intend to do that?

Rihanot: So, I’m not only the host of the show, I’m also the project coordinator. We all have our strengths and weaknesses, I’m great with trying to reach out to guests, and Tiara is great with coming up with questions we would ask our guests. It’s hard, but we are just two incredible women who want to create change. So in our own little space, we reach out to our friends and pitch the ideas of the podcast to them. We also get money from the side. Aside from that, it takes a lot of our time and attention. We still have our personal lives, our 9-5’s and some interviews lined up. In the long run, the bigger goal is to get investors to come on board and join the cause. We want to get to a level where when we get money, we’ll be able to help single mums, and widows, pay their children’s fees, rent, and more. So in the middle of this, we hope to get people to come on board and buy into the cause so it could be bigger than what it already is.

Biola: Okay…. 

Tiara: Yes, that’s just it. I work in tech and I know how investors want to see numbers, output, and all that. So, we are hoping that in the course of this, we will be able to pitch to investors or have them approach us when they see our numbers and impact. Our goal is not just to stop in the Nigerian space, we are aiming to be a global podcast and have people from all over the world invest in what we’re doing.

Rihanot: Speaking of numbers, as Tiara rightly said according to MediaVoices” only 10% of podcasts globally hit 373 downloads in its first 7 days. Since our launch on October 3rd, our first episode which was themed ” Successfully Single: Rewriting the Rules” with Dr Kris Marsh has had about 800 downloads in 27 countries across 4 continents. So the numbers are there, and we hope that as we progress it gets better and places us in a higher percentile.

Biola: That’s profound. Are there any plans to take it offline?

Rihanot: So basically, this creation of his project was based on the fact that men literally run the world. If you look at positions of expertise, and power, in the media and film industry it’s all saturated by men. So we are just amplifying the voices of women and trying to create more inclusive spaces for diverse narratives. We are just two women who came together to start something small. But now it’s taking off and we are here for that recognition. We hope that we have enough engagements and reach. Whether it’s a conference a school or just gatherings, we want to be there. We hope that the feedback and reception from people can propel us to be out there, speaking to people on the street, so change is not just created online but also offline.

Biola: That’s great and we believe in what you guys are doing. We need more of these conversations out there.

Tiara & Rihanot: Thank you so much.

Biola: If there is one thing you want your cause to be known for, what would that be?

Tiara: We want to be known as the podcast that changed the narrative. Just as our name “The Counter-narrative Podcast” implies, we want to be known for busting myths and stereotypes. We want to be known for promoting inclusivity and gender equality on a global scale.

Rihanot: Just like Tiara said, we want to be known for changing false narratives. Like when someone says something false, people would be like “No, on the counter-narrative podcast, Rihanot, Tiara, and their guest said this”. We want the podcast to be like a reference point for the truth. So in that way whatever information about gender, women, and inclusivity you put out there, it is accurate just like the Counter-narrative ladies.

Biola: This makes so much sense, and it’s great because accurate information is needed for topics like this.

Tiara: Exactly. Someone recently posted our podcast on her Instagram story and mentioned that she likes the fact that we have conversations with people who did the actual research. So it’s not like we are coming up with things out of thin air. No, we are having conversations with the actual researchers. I think this is one thing that will make us stand out in the podcasting world.

Rihanot: I and Tiara are glad to be changing these narratives, bringing the voices of women to the media space. We are entering the space on an intellectual level as most of our guests are Ph.D. holders, authors, and experts in their fields.

Biola: That’s impressive. I am looking forward to seeing all the amazing things that will come from this project. Wishing you both the best, sincerely and thank you for taking out time to speak with me.

Rihanot & Tiara: Thank you!